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July 23, 2008
Beyond REST? Building data services with XMPP.The slides from Rabble and my talk at OSCON 08. This was our XMPP outsiders look at how to hijack XMPP to solve the problems of RSS and polling at “quantum” and “relativistic” scales. (small and rare, or huge fast and raging).
19.
(Aside beyond rest, jabber, oscon08, rest, slides, xmpp)
July 24th, 2008 at 2:38 am
It’s great to see XMPP emerging.
Have you considered the mapping of Pubsub to AtomPub like with the Ejabberd-AtomPub module ?
Also, after OAuth over XMPP, there could be OpenID over XMPP with XEP-0070 authentication and even then OpenID interchange over XMPP.
July 24th, 2008 at 3:28 am
Good stuff. This would be a much better way of solving the polling issue than by introducing an intermediate between providers and consumers, as Gnip is doing. Is the Flickr case study real? Does the XMPP service exist yet, is it under development, or just an idea so far?
July 24th, 2008 at 7:23 am
@kael: I’d like to see someone tease out what the architecture would look like if you were to use the Ejabberd-AtomPub module. Part of what I like about the roll your own component approach is it gets the majority of the logic into something I deeply understand running, scaling, and monitoring as fast as possible.
@Christoper: so far its just an idea, but I tend to agree with you about intermediaries are sub-optimal, which is a conversation I’ve been having with bpm140 since before they launched
July 24th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Another interesting solution would be callbacks — this was what I wanted to do for delicious. push a single URL up to the service, occasionally, and then get RSS individual item fragments POST’d back to you.
Something like del.icio.us/subscribe?resource=/joshua&callback=http://my.webapp/endpoint or similar.
I even came up with a witty acronym for it.
This is probably an easier solution for people who are interested in only a very small subset of updates, like if I wanted to have updates for my account get pushed to my blog.
July 24th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
I wrote my thoughts up a bit more clearly at http://joshua.schachter.org/2008/07/beyond-rest.html
July 24th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
HTTP callbacks gets you something similar.
Personally, I don’t like the performance characteristics of HTTP callbacks as the service provider, and but for the “quantum” end of the scale web hooks work great. Not so much for the relativistic scales. (unless you’re running non-stock Web servers)
I think we’ll see XMPP-to-HTTP-callback proxies, I just don’t want to run them
July 24th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Indeed - for big service to big service, XMPP firehose is the only way to go. But callbacks are better for most everything smaller than that, I think.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:18 am
Nice slides, wish I could have heard the talk.
I’m going to college in Sweden and right now I’m doing my Masters thesis and I’m looking into how to use XMPP as public API for a Swedish company. And how I designed it is exactly the same as yours (except the OAuth part which I’ll probably add).
Really nice to see that someone else is having the same ideas.
July 26th, 2008 at 10:31 am
[...] Beyond REST? Building data services with XMPP. Pretty fascinating stuff. [...]
July 27th, 2008 at 11:35 am
GNIP implements HTTP callback for most social feeds. http://www.gnipcentral.com/
July 27th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Marc, yup very well aware of Gnip. I’ve been in chatting with Eric about architecture and design of Gnip since December.
July 27th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Emil, neat. When you post something publicly about your work, let me know.
July 28th, 2008 at 4:10 am
Kellan: Of cause. The final parts of the Masters Thesis is a report and a presentation. But because the report would probably contain a lot of information that nobody care about I have thought about doing a light version of the report. But at least the normal report will be published online.
July 28th, 2008 at 11:49 am
K—
This was the most thought-provoking presentation I’ve seen in a while. I am bummed to have missed OSCON just because of this.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Kellan, I sent you an email about this presentation and a project that I have… have you received it?
July 30th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
[...] Beyond REST? Building data services using XMPP [...]
July 30th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
[...] Sam Ruby making it one of his long bets to Evan Henshaw-Plath and Kellan Elliott-Mcrea’s presentation at OSCON last week. What is it about XMPP that’s making it, like Hansel, so hot right now? [...]
July 31st, 2008 at 12:31 am
[...] feedback on the Beyond REST talk has been immensely gratifying, the overwhelming positive response, and the engaged critiques. [...]
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 am
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